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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 11th Oct 2012 at 11:18 PM Last edited by cancerously : 11th Oct 2012 at 11:43 PM.
Default Dilemma.
I'm not super knowledgeable about this stuff, so I'd like some help.

Right now, I play both TS2 and TS3 on a laptop. For the past six or seven months, I've looked into getting a desktop for gaming. Not just for Sims, but for games like Amnesia, Skyrim, Diablo III, etc. I was going to start saving up for one last March, but I decided to save up to go to Italy instead.

Well I've recently realised Windows 8 is going to be released in like two weeks, and everything I've seen indicates it can't run TS2. If I'm going to buy a gaming computer, I want it to run ALL the games I want it to run. And I play TS2 quite frequently; I've been playing since 2004 and prefer it to TS3. And TS3 really does a number on my laptop anyway. But I digress.

Anyway, I guess I'm asking if I should try to buy a computer now or wait until later, or if there's some other solution I've overlooked. I know that's a weird question to ask on a forum but no one else who is even remotely knowledgeable plays TS2 and they don't understand it can be picky with the graphics cards. Or like, what specifically should I look for? What should I avoid? I'm sorry if this is way too broad for a forum (which it probably is, I'm always really worried I'm gonna annoy someone and they'll yell at me :3). I'm not really financially able to buy much right now, and I just don't want to never be able to play TS2 with great graphics.

Also, a lot of the computers I've looked into buying have graphics cards that aren't listed on the huge list (http://simswiki.info/wiki.php?title...Recommendations) so that adds to the confusion.

Or could I just buy something really cheap and upgrade the graphics card later? Should I just suck it up and deal because this endeavor is too far-fetched and illogical?

OR should I just build my own and install the OS I want to install? (which would be Windows 7)

I appreciate any input anyone can give me on anything, this is something I'm somewhat emotional about. Thanks.
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Scholar
#2 Old 12th Oct 2012 at 2:30 PM
Valve (Team Fortress 2, Half Life) and Blizzard (Diablo 3, World of Warcraft) two of the biggest developers have said, if i'm not mistaken, that Windows 8 in its current form is bad news for gaming. So as far as windows 8 is concerned, I wouldn't wait for it. Even if you buy in one year, get windows 7 unless they change windows 8.

However, Intel (the current leader for gaming CPUs) has new and apparently better CPUs out next year. They look quite nice from leaked specs I've read. You can expect them to be available around May-June 2013.

Here's what I would suggest. Decide if you can wait till then. If you can, do it. Save more money and spend on a really nice system. You won't be disappointed.

If you can't and really want to play now, that's still viable. Today's current CPUs are NOT weak by any means. It's just that $ for $, next years CPUs will have more punch but ofcourse you have to wait 6+ months. If you want to buy now, post your current budget, what you want to do with it exactly (anything else besides the games you listed? photoshop?) and see if there are any pieces you can scavenge from other desktops you already have. We'll see where we can go from there.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 19th Oct 2012 at 1:56 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ajaxsirius
Valve (Team Fortress 2, Half Life) and Blizzard (Diablo 3, World of Warcraft) two of the biggest developers have said, if i'm not mistaken, that Windows 8 in its current form is bad news for gaming. So as far as windows 8 is concerned, I wouldn't wait for it. Even if you buy in one year, get windows 7 unless they change windows 8.

However, Intel (the current leader for gaming CPUs) has new and apparently better CPUs out next year. They look quite nice from leaked specs I've read. You can expect them to be available around May-June 2013.

Here's what I would suggest. Decide if you can wait till then. If you can, do it. Save more money and spend on a really nice system. You won't be disappointed.

If you can't and really want to play now, that's still viable. Today's current CPUs are NOT weak by any means. It's just that $ for $, next years CPUs will have more punch but ofcourse you have to wait 6+ months. If you want to buy now, post your current budget, what you want to do with it exactly (anything else besides the games you listed? photoshop?) and see if there are any pieces you can scavenge from other desktops you already have. We'll see where we can go from there.


Thank you very much.

Well... I don't really have much extra money right now. I make about $800 a month (I'm in college) and when I really need to save up for something, I do it. I've also been playing around with custom builds and so far, I've got this and it's the cheapest. I mean obviously I'd need to buy a monitor and keyboard... but still.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/k3EF

In a way, I'd rather just buy a computer but at the same time I like having one that's customised. Oh and I don't have any other desktops. And I don't do much else except normal internet browsing, and I do like to occasionally use Sony Vegas. But that's really it.

Thanks for your reply btw.
Test Subject
#4 Old 20th Oct 2012 at 1:22 AM
Quote: Originally posted by cancerously

I appreciate any input anyone can give me on anything, this is something I'm somewhat emotional about. Thanks.


Don't worry about it, you're not alone. Graphiccards, operating systems, expansion packs... It's a lot to take in, especially if you have that "omgwilitplaywontitohnorunningoutoftimepanicpanicPANIC!" feeling that Windows 8 seems to bring with it.

Cut off the stream of information for now, before your brain overloads and blows a fuse. Then make a list of what you already know, and one of what you need to find out. Take it one step at a time, and you will eventually have a list of specs that you can use as a shield when you're about to drive headfirst into a wall-o-text again.

Breathe. Take a small step. Breathe.

We can do this.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#5 Old 20th Oct 2012 at 6:34 AM
Any card on the Sims 3 Green rows would do fine. Which you may want to refer to, as some of the games on your list there are newer games than Sims 2. And looking at individual game's System Requirements specs sheet is also a good idea. Just to ensure you're not caught off guard that a certain game has higher requirements than what you'd assumed.

Re: the parts list.
If you're not going to overclock or not an Audiophile, I'd suggest knocking off the CPU Cooler and the Sound Card. And getting a non-K CPU.
You can then put that budget towards a small-ish SSD for the Boot drive, with a little bit more like @$20-30 or so. Any of those 3 brands that is less than $80 are good brands (OCZ, Intel & Crucial; see link below), although you may still need to research the model#s if they are discounted due to some issue or other, or just because they're older stock the shops want to move off their Inventory.
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/inter...=24&sort=a7&t=0

Also, if you're not going to go SLI or Xfire or not have a multi-monitor setup, or not have 27" single monitor and play in resolutions higher than 1920x1080, the 700W is a bit much, so I've also tweaked that.

Adding in OS, Keyboard, and a 23"/24" Monitor in the $100-150 range brings you to about (@$783 with one ssd & 1.5TB HDD + $99.99 biostar mobo fr newegg + @$150 monitor) = $1033 grand total
Approx $953 in grand total, if without the SSD.
Knock off $70-80 depending which HDD you get. I changed the HDD after reading reviews on the Seagate Barrucada. The Barrucada Green has better reviews. If want to save even more and not wanting an SSD, get the Caviar Blue. The Greens are usually for data drives when you have a separate OS drive, the Blues are OK for an OS + Data drive, ie with no separate OS drive, which would cost you $883 in Grand total.


Here's the tweaked version with all the changes above, with a Core i5-2400 (non-K) CPU: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kQsJ

If that is over-budget, then we can tweak CPU to be lower than the @3.0 GHz mark, smaller HDD, and so on, depending on your requirements of which is more important to you.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#6 Old 21st Oct 2012 at 10:37 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Thalia_NL
Don't worry about it, you're not alone. Graphiccards, operating systems, expansion packs... It's a lot to take in, especially if you have that "omgwilitplaywontitohnorunningoutoftimepanicpanicPANIC!" feeling that Windows 8 seems to bring with it.

Cut off the stream of information for now, before your brain overloads and blows a fuse. Then make a list of what you already know, and one of what you need to find out. Take it one step at a time, and you will eventually have a list of specs that you can use as a shield when you're about to drive headfirst into a wall-o-text again.

Breathe. Take a small step. Breathe.

We can do this.

Thanks. ^__^
I just was worried people would be like, “What’s HER problem?” But I do have the Windows 8 induced panic.


Quote: Originally posted by ellacharmed
Any card on the Sims 3 Green rows would do fine. Which you may want to refer to, as some of the games on your list there are newer games than Sims 2. And looking at individual game's System Requirements specs sheet is also a good idea. Just to ensure you're not caught off guard that a certain game has higher requirements than what you'd assumed.

Re: the parts list.
If you're not going to overclock or not an Audiophile, I'd suggest knocking off the CPU Cooler and the Sound Card. And getting a non-K CPU.
You can then put that budget towards a small-ish SSD for the Boot drive, with a little bit more like @$20-30 or so. Any of those 3 brands that is less than $80 are good brands (OCZ, Intel & Crucial; see link below), although you may still need to research the model#s if they are discounted due to some issue or other, or just because they're older stock the shops want to move off their Inventory.
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/inter...=24&sort=a7&t=0

Also, if you're not going to go SLI or Xfire or not have a multi-monitor setup, or not have 27" single monitor and play in resolutions higher than 1920x1080, the 700W is a bit much, so I've also tweaked that.

Adding in OS, Keyboard, and a 23"/24" Monitor in the $100-150 range brings you to about (@$783 with one ssd & 1.5TB HDD + $99.99 biostar mobo fr newegg + @$150 monitor) = $1033 grand total
Approx $953 in grand total, if without the SSD.
Knock off $70-80 depending which HDD you get. I changed the HDD after reading reviews on the Seagate Barrucada. The Barrucada Green has better reviews. If want to save even more and not wanting an SSD, get the Caviar Blue. The Greens are usually for data drives when you have a separate OS drive, the Blues are OK for an OS + Data drive, ie with no separate OS drive, which would cost you $883 in Grand total.


Here's the tweaked version with all the changes above, with a Core i5-2400 (non-K) CPU: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kQsJ

If that is over-budget, then we can tweak CPU to be lower than the @3.0 GHz mark, smaller HDD, and so on, depending on your requirements of which is more important to you.


Definitely not planning on overclocking. That's... too stressful for me XD and it doesn't even have to outperform, it just needs to perform.

What's an SSD? And no, I'm not planning on having a 27" monitor, I have no need for it. Do I not NEED a sound card? I thought it was something I literally had to have. That motherboard does have SLI, but I'm not sure if SLI is necessary for me personally.

I have time to not buy some of the parts, like a keyboard and a monitor for a while. Playing the game isn't the issue, really... I mean I would LIKE to play as soon as I can, but I can put some of the hardware off, is what I mean. I just want to have a computer that can play TS2.

Besides, I have no idea what to do when I get the parts anyways. D:

Thanks for your response though. Building a computer is just overwhelming and scary.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#7 Old 22nd Oct 2012 at 5:04 AM
SSD: Solid State Drive. Links below from searching "what is ssd" and "do i need ssd".
- http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4535...i-need-to-know/
- http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp
- http://www.storagereview.com/ssd_vs_hdd
- http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/solid-...ve-ssd-opinion/
- http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387196,00.asp

Sound: these days both the motherboard and GPU have built-in sound
- Realtek ALC892 chipset on the motherboard, in Details tab under "Onboard Audio" http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813138317
- "Audio Input for HDMI" on the GPU, means you'd need a monitor with HDMI port, if you're planning to use digital sound from the GPU http://www.geforce.com/hardware/des.../specifications

Purchasing parts: It is more advantageous to buy all parts in one shot.
Because, if you buy them piecemeal and decide to get the parts as and when and only build like 6 months from now, some of the parts may be cheaper 6 mths down the road, or out-of-stock and then new parts won't be compatible with the motherboard you had initially selected anymore.

If you search with terms like "how to choose xxx", replacing the xxx with "motherboard" or "graphics card" or "power supply", there are lots of results even from a few years ago that still applies. The "how" does not change, only the "what" changes when new models come into the market.

Self-Buiding: no worries. Take it slow and Research! Research! Research!
The building itself is fun. The tedious bit is the research on what parts to get, because you have to juggle your budget and needs into the equation. Along with taking reviews into consideration on the parts you shortlisted if it is a good investment or not.
Also, lots of videos on the web showing you "how to build a PC" itself, once you have all the parts. And, goes without saying you have a forum to ask questions at!
One Minute Ninja'd
#8 Old 23rd Oct 2012 at 2:14 AM
Just an aside to the above discussion. All of the hardware advise you've gotten, BTW, is right on. As far as one big issue you raised in your OP, Win 8 is coming out the end of the week. If I were building/buying a system today, or even next week, I'd go with Win 7 as my OS. It's not at all clear how Win 8 is going to play out period, never mind just games. It has some good points, but is a huge shift in environment, and I won't be jumping on board for a while. Don't worry, you will still find plenty of offers for Win 7 even after Win 8's release, and should Win 8 turn out to be superior, it seems to be set up for an easy and inexpensive upgrade path for the near future. Concentrate on a system that meets your needs and budget, and leave Win 8 out of the picture for now.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#9 Old 24th Oct 2012 at 12:16 AM Last edited by cancerously : 24th Oct 2012 at 3:15 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by ellacharmed
SSD: Solid State Drive. Links below from searching "what is ssd" and "do i need ssd".
- http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4535...i-need-to-know/
- http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp
- http://www.storagereview.com/ssd_vs_hdd
- http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/solid-...ve-ssd-opinion/
- http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387196,00.asp

Sound: these days both the motherboard and GPU have built-in sound
- Realtek ALC892 chipset on the motherboard, in Details tab under "Onboard Audio" http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813138317
- "Audio Input for HDMI" on the GPU, means you'd need a monitor with HDMI port, if you're planning to use digital sound from the GPU http://www.geforce.com/hardware/des.../specifications

Purchasing parts: It is more advantageous to buy all parts in one shot.
Because, if you buy them piecemeal and decide to get the parts as and when and only build like 6 months from now, some of the parts may be cheaper 6 mths down the road, or out-of-stock and then new parts won't be compatible with the motherboard you had initially selected anymore.

If you search with terms like "how to choose xxx", replacing the xxx with "motherboard" or "graphics card" or "power supply", there are lots of results even from a few years ago that still applies. The "how" does not change, only the "what" changes when new models come into the market.

Self-Buiding: no worries. Take it slow and Research! Research! Research!
The building itself is fun. The tedious bit is the research on what parts to get, because you have to juggle your budget and needs into the equation. Along with taking reviews into consideration on the parts you shortlisted if it is a good investment or not.
Also, lots of videos on the web showing you "how to build a PC" itself, once you have all the parts. And, goes without saying you have a forum to ask questions at!


I really can't buy literally every part in one fell swoop, basically it's going to have to go a little like this:

Get paid.
Pay bills.
Spend remaining money on parts.
Rinse and repeat.

I get paid every two weeks, so the lapse shouldn't be too bad. But keeping this in mind, is there a specific order I should buy the parts? Like... I've heard of people being like, "I bought and it didn't work and now I have to send it back" but I have no idea how to even figure out of they work or not.

Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
Just an aside to the above discussion. All of the hardware advise you've gotten, BTW, is right on. As far as one big issue you raised in your OP, Win 8 is coming out the end of the week. If I were building/buying a system today, or even next week, I'd go with Win 7 as my OS. It's not at all clear how Win 8 is going to play out period, never mind just games. It has some good points, but is a huge shift in environment, and I won't be jumping on board for a while. Don't worry, you will still find plenty of offers for Win 7 even after Win 8's release, and should Win 8 turn out to be superior, it seems to be set up for an easy and inexpensive upgrade path for the near future. Concentrate on a system that meets your needs and budget, and leave Win 8 out of the picture for now.


I'm glad to see someone else agreeing with the hardware. And yeah, I don't want Win 8 so that's part of why I'm trying to act now and part of why I want to build my own computer. I've heard 8 won't run TS2, which is a problem for me.

EDIT: Is there a noticeable difference between the GeForce GT 560 and the 560 Ti? Are those good enough to run aforementioned games on pretty decent settings? The 560 is available at Best Buy and I was hoping maybe there would be a Black Friday sale so I have a shot of nabbing it cheaper. For those of you who don't live in the US, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving and for some reason there are mega sales on stuff that day, and the stores open at like 12 for it.

I also messed around with my build since my last post, and here's what I have now minus the OS, keyboard and monitor.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/lf3J

And I know someone suggested not to get a K CPU but if I get a different one then I had to rearrange more stuff because of the Ivy Bridge compatibility. And my favourite youtuber, who plays a lot of the same games I mentioned up there, has that exact processor so that makes me feel better about it because I know he doesn't have trouble with his games. I'm not sure what his GPU is though... anyway I am now rambling.
In the Arena
retired moderator
#10 Old 24th Oct 2012 at 4:31 AM
Saving money
"I really can't buy literally every part in one fell swoop"
Why not? Instead of doing this: "Spend remaining money on parts", do this: "Save remaining money on parts" and put it aside.
If you cannot save, give it to a trustworthy family member to help you not spend it, or deposit in a Savings account that has a stipulated non-closure period. I used to do that when I first started working and spending everything I made. And then when I wanted to go on a holiday or buy a big ticket item, I plan 2 years in advance and save $50 or $100 every month until I'm allowed to close that account, by which time I get a lump sum of a maximum $2400.

Research
"I have no idea how to even figure out of they work or not"
That's why I advocate the art of reading. So you can do research.
Read Tech reviews on that part's performance and benchmarks, read User reviews on their experience. Read comparison charts where the part is mentioned.
Thus the delay in purchasing, so that you have all this time to research while saving $$$. So you can make sure ALL the parts work together, when you buy them together.

Comparison
"Is there a noticeable difference between the GeForce GT 560 and the 560 Ti?"
Yes. At the expense of increased cost.
http://www.hwcompare.com/10981/gefo...rce-gtx-560-ti/
http://bit.ly/VBX39l

Build parts list
I've never heard of the PSU manufacturer.
And following the link to Newegg, shows lots of user reviews of DOA - Dead on Arrival. Do not scrimp on PSU! And don't forget to research!
Get the more known labels like the sticky states - Antec, Corsair, Seasonic, OCZ, Thermaltake. There may be a couple I missed.

K-cpu vs non-k-cpu.
Up to you, it is your money. The price difference is not that much nowadays, really, to make a big difference, just on CPU alone.
Are you pairing it with the same motherboard as well, as the youtuber? Else, you may not get the same performance, apart from the GPU difference.
There's actually no need to rearrange stuff if you get a non-k version CPU. Most overclock-capable motherboards support both. It is when you also get a non-overclock-capable motherboard with the same USB/SATA/PCI/LAN/SOUND/IO-ports as the overclock version that you save the money. Non-overclock-capable motherboards are cheaper, as most time they also has less features. I mean, I surely don't need 2 Ethernet LAN ports, or a mobo that supports 2 CPUs, but I don't know about you.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#11 Old 24th Oct 2012 at 7:31 PM Last edited by cancerously : 25th Oct 2012 at 1:59 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by ellacharmed
Saving money
"I really can't buy literally every part in one fell swoop"
Why not? Instead of doing this: "Spend remaining money on parts", do this: "Save remaining money on parts" and put it aside.
If you cannot save, give it to a trustworthy family member to help you not spend it, or deposit in a Savings account that has a stipulated non-closure period. I used to do that when I first started working and spending everything I made. And then when I wanted to go on a holiday or buy a big ticket item, I plan 2 years in advance and save $50 or $100 every month until I'm allowed to close that account, by which time I get a lump sum of a maximum $2400.

Research
"I have no idea how to even figure out of they work or not"
That's why I advocate the art of reading. So you can do research.
Read Tech reviews on that part's performance and benchmarks, read User reviews on their experience. Read comparison charts where the part is mentioned.
Thus the delay in purchasing, so that you have all this time to research while saving $$$. So you can make sure ALL the parts work together, when you buy them together.

Comparison
"Is there a noticeable difference between the GeForce GT 560 and the 560 Ti?"
Yes. At the expense of increased cost.
http://www.hwcompare.com/10981/gefo...rce-gtx-560-ti/
http://bit.ly/VBX39l

Build parts list
I've never heard of the PSU manufacturer.
And following the link to Newegg, shows lots of user reviews of DOA - Dead on Arrival. Do not scrimp on PSU! And don't forget to research!
Get the more known labels like the sticky states - Antec, Corsair, Seasonic, OCZ, Thermaltake. There may be a couple I missed.

K-cpu vs non-k-cpu.
Up to you, it is your money. The price difference is not that much nowadays, really, to make a big difference, just on CPU alone.
Are you pairing it with the same motherboard as well, as the youtuber? Else, you may not get the same performance, apart from the GPU difference.
There's actually no need to rearrange stuff if you get a non-k version CPU. Most overclock-capable motherboards support both. It is when you also get a non-overclock-capable motherboard with the same USB/SATA/PCI/LAN/SOUND/IO-ports as the overclock version that you save the money. Non-overclock-capable motherboards are cheaper, as most time they also has less features. I mean, I surely don't need 2 Ethernet LAN ports, or a mobo that supports 2 CPUs, but I don't know about you.


I could just save up and do it like that, you're right. I suppose the sense of urgency may be interfering with my better judgment. I also might be selling my current laptop, which is worth almost the value of the build... and speaking of the build, I posted it on another site and people were like, "Grr, that's bad" and they "fixed" it but I need to check with the Sims community to see what you think.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/llaw

I'm not trying to be like... "Woo, I'm too lazy to do the research so everyone on here should do it for me!!1" That's how I feel like I'm coming across. It's just a little overwhelming. I have done some research, but then people say stuff and I'm like... wut?
In the Arena
retired moderator
#12 Old 25th Oct 2012 at 3:37 PM
Same concern over the ASRock brand as I stated in the other Build thread below yours.

Did you state the overall budget you're aiming for, for this build?
The OS is still not in the list?
And, coming from a laptop, don't you need to budget for monitor, keyboard+mouse as well?
Test Subject
#13 Old 25th Oct 2012 at 4:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by cancerously
Thanks. ^__^
I just was worried people would be like, “What’s HER problem?” But I do have the Windows 8 induced panic.

I would be giving you a lot more funny looks if you WEREN'T creeped out by Windows 8. I mean, just... just... look at it.
Yeah, I know, not helping here. . But I wouldn't worry too much, because game devs don't like it either and are about one step away from outright rioting. Even the developer of Minecraft is refusing to make his game compatible with Windows8 because he thinks its a 'threat to gamers everywhere'.
Microsoft may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but even they can't be THIS obvlivious. Something tells me Windows 7 won't be pulled from the stores anytime soon

Quote:
I have time to not buy some of the parts, like a keyboard and a monitor for a while. Playing the game isn't the issue, really... I mean I would LIKE to play as soon as I can, but I can put some of the hardware off, is what I mean. I just want to have a computer that can play TS2.

Besides, I have no idea what to do when I get the parts anyways. D:

Thanks for your response though. Building a computer is just overwhelming and scary.


Ironic, isn't it? How people try to soak up as much info on new computers as they can, but forget that their own brain has hardware limits of its own?
Thats why I clean out my memory by dumping as much data on paper as I can. Its like a flashdrive for your brain!

By the way, there is a grey area between buying a prebuild and starting from scratch: if you're up to it, you could also buy a 'barebones'. Its like a 'skeleton' of a desktop (of, very rarely, a laptop) that already comes with a case, mobo (not always) and power supply assembled. You then buy the other parts (like a HDD, DVDdrive, RAM...) yourself and put them in the barebone. If you want to learn how to build a desktop, starting out with a barebone system makes great trainingwheels!

However, please do yourself a favor right now: if you are completely frazzled, desperate, tired and feel like your brain is going to explode from information overload, then just buy yourself a nice prebuild computer and have fun with it. Learn to know it, how it works, what its quirks are, what's under the hood. Cleaning your computer is not just beneficial to its performance, but its also a great way to feel more comfortable poking around its innards. And when the time comes in a few years, hone your tech skills by doing a few small upgrades here and there. By the time it breaks, you'll be confident enough to level up and start looking into more advanced ways to get yourself a new system.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#14 Old 25th Oct 2012 at 8:59 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ellacharmed
Same concern over the ASRock brand as I stated in the other Build thread below yours.

Did you state the overall budget you're aiming for, for this build?
The OS is still not in the list?
And, coming from a laptop, don't you need to budget for monitor, keyboard+mouse as well?


I'm sort of hoping the price in OS will go down because of Windows 8 coming out. And yeah, I do have to budget for a monitor and a keyboard but since I don't need specific ones I'm not putting it on the list. I know it'll add like an extra $400 at the minimum.

My overall budget.... I don't really know, I guess nothing over $1200 for EVERYTHING. I really would rather not hit that amount, but I don't want to skimp out and get something crappy either.

Quote: Originally posted by Thalia_NL
I would be giving you a lot more funny looks if you WEREN'T creeped out by Windows 8. I mean, just... just... look at it.
Yeah, I know, not helping here. . But I wouldn't worry too much, because game devs don't like it either and are about one step away from outright rioting. Even the developer of Minecraft is refusing to make his game compatible with Windows8 because he thinks its a 'threat to gamers everywhere'.
Microsoft may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but even they can't be THIS obvlivious. Something tells me Windows 7 won't be pulled from the stores anytime soon



Ironic, isn't it? How people try to soak up as much info on new computers as they can, but forget that their own brain has hardware limits of its own?
Thats why I clean out my memory by dumping as much data on paper as I can. Its like a flashdrive for your brain!

By the way, there is a grey area between buying a prebuild and starting from scratch: if you're up to it, you could also buy a 'barebones'. Its like a 'skeleton' of a desktop (of, very rarely, a laptop) that already comes with a case, mobo (not always) and power supply assembled. You then buy the other parts (like a HDD, DVDdrive, RAM...) yourself and put them in the barebone. If you want to learn how to build a desktop, starting out with a barebone system makes great trainingwheels!

However, please do yourself a favor right now: if you are completely frazzled, desperate, tired and feel like your brain is going to explode from information overload, then just buy yourself a nice prebuild computer and have fun with it. Learn to know it, how it works, what its quirks are, what's under the hood. Cleaning your computer is not just beneficial to its performance, but its also a great way to feel more comfortable poking around its innards. And when the time comes in a few years, hone your tech skills by doing a few small upgrades here and there. By the time it breaks, you'll be confident enough to level up and start looking into more advanced ways to get yourself a new system.


The problem with buying a prebuild is none of the cheaper prebuilds are good enough. It's cheaper to just build one myself.

But I'm not sure I have the tech level required to build one. Putting the pieces together makes sense, and seems easy enough, but the more... meticulous stuff like cable management and applying the thermal paste to the CPU seems like something I can't really pull off. I would also need a large, extremely quiet space to do all this, which I don't have.

There are a variety of computer stores that might be able to help me out, but of course that's more money. I haven't had the time to go to them, look around, get a feel for the people who work there, etc. because they're in my hometown (which is about 45 minutes away from my tiny college town). I also have friends who could help. I've looked into getting a barebones kit, but then I'm sort of back at square one... I have to research models, pricing, etc. And with this build, all I have to do right now is maybe try to replace that ASRock brand.

Here's kind of an update on my budget: I have $900 saved up for Italy, which was supposed to be this June but now it's been moved to October. I'm going to try to sell my laptop for about $600 (my boyfriend desperately needs a new computer so it'll be around that price), which will pay for roughly half of the cost of building my own computer (factoring in the monitor, OS, and keyboard). And I can pull from some of the Italy money, because I can now work over the summer to replenish it. I don't want to use all the money, by any means. I also have about $1,000 saved up as an emergency fund, but I don't want to pull too much from that either. If I run into a pickle with the Italy money, my family will probably help out because it's my first trip out of the country, but they won't help me pay for a computer (which is understandable because I already have a working one and I don't literally need a new computer).

Thanks for being patient with me, by the way. I really have no idea what I'm doing.
Test Subject
#15 Old 26th Oct 2012 at 1:02 AM
I'm not about to offer any technical advice, I'll leave that to the experts, I'm just popping in here for moral support.

You can totally do this. I just built my first computer with only the advice of this community and my own research, and it worked out great. I had the same concerns as you did, because I am not terribly technically skilled myself, but it was absolutely fine.

I mean, you do have to do a lot of work, researching and choosing your parts, but putting it together wasn't that difficult, at least for me. And building my computer was literally the first time I'd even looked inside one unsupervised, ha. If you know how to read and follow directions, you'll do fine. Just read the manuals, especially for your motherboard, look up tutorials, watch videos, ask whatever questions you need to and you'll be prepared.

Mind you, I'm not telling you to go outside your comfort zone. If you're really terribly uncomfortable with the idea of building your computer by yourself, you do what you need to do. But I do think, as you've obviously taken the time to do some research and ask questions when you need to, you're intelligent enough to get this done.

Also, as to the thermal paste, if you're not planning on overclocking, you can just use the stock CPU cooler, which comes with it preapplied. Or there are some aftermarket coolers with thermal paste preapplied, too, I believe.
Test Subject
#16 Old 26th Oct 2012 at 2:52 AM
What I found helpfull when building my first PC (when I was still using a desktop), were videotutorials on youtube. Somehow those worked better for me than text and screenshots. The downside is that you have to pause them after every step if you want to follow along.

I'm curious about your budget restrictions though: you said somewhere it's about 1200 dollars max. That is about (rough estimate here) 1500 euros and I got myself an absolute beast of a barebones laptop, including parts of my choice AND assembly, for slightly less! Considering how laptops are way more expensive than desktops when their performance is the same, are you sure you're not overpaying?
Test Subject
#17 Old 26th Oct 2012 at 11:49 AM
Sorry, I'm just jumping in to say this:

@Thalia_NL: No, 1200 dollars (if we're talking USD) is about 925 euros, not 1500! To pay 1200 dollars for a great desktop, from what I've seen, is not overpaying, especially if you also have to buy a monitor and a keyboard.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#18 Old 27th Oct 2012 at 2:52 AM
Yeah, 1200 USD = ~926 euros.

I spoke with a computer guy today and he told me that it would actually be better and cheaper to purchase a pre-built desktop and just upgrade the graphics card and the PSU. I've done the calculations and it would actually be cheaper, or very close to the same price if I did this. They're on sale for about $330-$470. So I could always do that, and that's the direction I'm headed but I still have to do some more research.

But that leads to another question.

These computers have i3 processors (one of them, actually the one I like best, is an AMD A6) and I heard i3 processors are bad for TS3. But that was in 2009, so I was wondering if that's still true. And I know next to nothing about AMD + TS2/TS3, so if anyone knows about that I'd appreciate it. The speeds are all at least 3.0 GHz (I wouldn't buy anything less than that anyway, for what I'm wanting).
In the Arena
retired moderator
#19 Old 27th Oct 2012 at 6:32 AM
I disagree with you @Thalia_NL, on that brain hardware bits - don't the scientists say that we're only using @2% of our brainpower?
I'm not even maximizing my braincells when answering threads. And if I know how to push it, I'd be able to multitask even more now rather than just having multiple tabs open and watching videos at the same time (need the background noise, or else too quiet and cannot think).
Oh! and braincells != memory, just as CPU != RAM.

And now back on topic...
I also prefer a 100% self-built as I cannot choose the power supply on a pre-built or the store have limited choices. And the PSU is the most important thing to me after the chassis. Plus, what would I do with the unused PSU? It is going to be a white elephant, when I could have channeled the cost of that to something else. I wouldn't even sell it to unsuspecting folks and passing on a bad item that I wouldn't use myself.

No, i3 IS bad for TS3, and that's not just during 2009 when it was relatively new. It is still bad today. It just doesn't have the power for 3D-resource-intensive games. Same goes with APUs - because it is targeted for the AIO (all-in-one) market. Clock for clock, Intel processors are still the most value for money for gaming Desktops, and they are easier to upgrade. AMD's Processor market is in a flux in my mind because the older AM2+/AM3+ chipsets have no other avenue when you want to upgrade, since AMD is going into the APU business. And APUs are not producing good enough results for me. Others claim their Sims 3 is running fine. But I'd be more interested to pit my Intel Core i7 against their APU processor after each has had 2 or 3 years of gaming everyday at 4-6hours per day under their belt.

New shinies are of course going to work well, right? Talk to me about CPU performance after a couple of years, and we'll see which was the "best-bang-for-buck" deal; how many crashes each has or how many times one encounter issues during that 2 years of gameplay.
Test Subject
#20 Old 27th Oct 2012 at 5:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ellacharmed
I disagree with you @Thalia_NL, on that brain hardware bits - don't the scientists say that we're only using @2% of our brainpower?


Nope, common myth. We only use a small part of our brain AT ONCE, but we do use all of it. Captain nitpickery to the resque!

Ontopic: I messed up with the currency converter and you're right! Its not 1500 but 900 and that's indeed not a bad price. Sorry :P
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#21 Old 27th Oct 2012 at 5:34 PM
For me, there are a lot of pros to buying a prebuilt one and just upgrading it. I just never thought of it before, which is why I never mentioned it. It would be an excellent start to get me on the path to building my own computer from scratch sometime in the future. I learn very sequentially, so for the learning experience it's better for me to do it gradually (and I am interested in building my own computer, but like I said I'm not sure I have the tech savvy required yet) and I want the computer ASAP. It would allow me to buy at a gradual pace without having parts just lying around my house. It would also allow me to buy at a gradual pace faster, if that makes sense. I've done the calculations and I can do it in about four different purchases, depending on whether or not I buy Windows 7 separately or not. And it all comes out to cheaper than it would than buying a prebuild. The most expensive scenario is $1320 for everything (including MS Office).

I've looked at the motherboard specs, and if I did want to upgrade the CPU someday, it is compatible with a lot of the Ivy Bridge processors. It's compatible with the one in my custom build, so if the CPU really did give me problems I could upgrade it later. I honestly don't play TS3 a whole lot, and the processor seems to run fine for other games (not super amazingly, but if I do it this way I can spend a bit more on the video card and PSU).

It's an i3-2130 (3.4 GHz) and it comes with a 1.5 TB hard drive and 8gb of RAM. It's on sale for $429.99 at the moment.

I'm leaning toward doing it this way, but I'm also wondering if there's a gaping flaw in my logic that I've somehow overlooked.
Test Subject
#22 Old 28th Oct 2012 at 12:08 AM
My previous computer had a better CPU and it was quite an old lady when I blew it up gracefully retired it. You can upgrade it later, I agree with you there, but be warned that you will be starting out with a big disadvantage here, seeing as its a whole generation behind.

The harddrive and memory though, should hold you over for a while. It might even be cheaper to buy it and just replace the CPU right away. It's worth looking into.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#23 Old 28th Oct 2012 at 8:32 AM
Yeah, I'm really leaning toward buying a prebuild and upgrading it. It seems like it's a good first step for me.
Test Subject
#24 Old 28th Oct 2012 at 2:21 PM
Quote: Originally posted by cancerously
Yeah, I'm really leaning toward buying a prebuild and upgrading it. It seems like it's a good first step for me.


Its a great way to learn. And they say videogames are a waste of time... :D
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 28th Oct 2012 at 7:34 PM
cancerously, I'd also like to chime in to say YOU CAN DO IT. I also built my first computer from scratch this past spring with lots of help from this board, and it was an amazing experience (you can check out the thread here).

I started out knowing almost nothing about what lived inside a PC case and being totally confused and overwhelmed by all of the various bits that go into choosing a build, wondering if it might not just make more sense to buy a pre-built machine and get it over with. But I am SO GLAD I decided to stick with it. After a few weeks of researching and learning (with a couple of minor hiccups!), I built that sucker and have been enjoying my beautiful machine ever since. It was incredibly rewarding, and I am so happy to have developed some new skills and gained a lot of knowledge in the process. I can't recommend it enough.

One thing that helped me feel more confident about the process was watching tutorials on youtube (a couple of examples, from last year but still useful: Newegg, Lifehacker + article, NCIX Esther). As I was learning about everything and choosing my components, I'd just watch a build video every night before bed. At first, it seemed like they were speaking another language (8-pin, SATA, Molex, wha?), but I kept watching them over and over, and eventually, it didn't seem so foreign. More importantly, it didn't seem so scary! By the time I sat down with my own pile of parts, it didn't feel like I was setting out to do the impossible, you know? Things like applying thermal paste and figuring out cable management nothing to lose sleep over—you can do it!

Watching a variety of videos I think also helped me get over the feeling that you can only build a computer if you're some kind of highly-trained, white-coated technician working in a sterile lab and that if you make any tiny mistake, you are doomed! It helped to see all kinds of people—normal people!—putting together computers in kitchens and bedrooms and (prrrobably not recommended...) on carpeted dorm room floors. As far as not having the space, I cleared off half of my desk and part of my coffee table and was fine.

Basically, I think learning to build a PC was a fantastic experience to have and worth more than the actual dollars I saved doing it—I almost feel like I paid to gain this cool new life skill, and the computer was just the bonus prize at the end. So I hope you decide to go for it!
 
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