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Lab Assistant
#26 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:24 AM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
Nice lots certainly can definitely be made with TS4, which no one doubts at all. The issues here is subdued freedom. TS4’s build mode wasn’t developed in such a way that shows me that EA wants it be the best it could possibly be. They’ve settled for good enough and take shortcuts.

I no doubt see the limitations, but I feel the original poster overexaderates the limitations a bit. If you can build nice lots than what is the problem other than you can't go all out? There were limitations in Sims 3 as well if you did not use cheats or mods. Also not to mention you could not build pools and fountains like you can now. I don't think I could remake the water based club exactly in Sims 3 if I tried.
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Mad Poster
#27 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:24 AM
IMO they dumbed down the game in many ways such as build mode. There are some good features in 4's build system that I miss when building in 3, but overall I think they tried to go for less complex for some builders and made it a pain for folks like me who have built hundreds of lots in the prior games. I think with the game engine their hands were tied with this as well as everything else.

I love to build and have filled darn every lot in 4 with something I have built. And I like those builds a lot. But I still prefer to build in 3 much more.
Lab Assistant
#28 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:27 AM
Quote: Originally posted by daisylee
IMO they dumbed down the game in many ways such as build mode. There are some good features in 4's build system that I miss when building in 3, but overall I think they tried to go for less complex for some builders and made it a pain for folks like me who have built hundreds of lots in the prior games. I think with the game engine their hands were tied with this as well as everything else.

I can say one of the things I always disliked was even needing to use mods and cheat code in Sims 3 to get rid of elevation limits and other things. I also dislike how in Sims 4 I can spend hours on an apartment and not be able to save it. Sims 4 has it's flaws, but I look at it as it's own game more and really don't care either way.
Mad Poster
#29 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:36 AM
I think it is best to view them on their own also. We cannot help but compare, but if we look at them individually it can help ease some of the frustrations.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#30 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 5:13 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
I no doubt see the limitations, but I feel the original poster overexaderates the limitations a bit. If you can build nice lots than what is the problem other than you can't go all out? There were limitations in Sims 3 as well if you did not use cheats or mods. Also not to mention you could not build pools and fountains like you can now. I don't think I could remake the water based club exactly in Sims 3 if I tried.


Well, in the sims 4 those cheats do not ( or didn't) exist.
Mad Poster
#31 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 5:27 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
I no doubt see the limitations, but I feel the original poster overexaderates the limitations a bit. If you can build nice lots than what is the problem other than you can't go all out? There were limitations in Sims 3 as well if you did not use cheats or mods. Also not to mention you could not build pools and fountains like you can now. I don't think I could remake the water based club exactly in Sims 3 if I tried.


If you’re bar for limitations is whether or not you can remake a club, you severely underestimate what limitations are. TS3 was fairly rough around the edges, but EA could have built up from that platform. Instead, they scrapped it.

Even without cheats, TS3’s build mode was perfectly fine. The additional of cheats made it that much better.

Even having a limited selection of foundations as opposed to using wallpaper (or having the option of either or) is frustrating because the wallpapers that are supposed to match... don’t.

It’s not fair to tell people who have been building for quite some time what consistutes as limited or what is “good enough,” because good enough is fine for you. TS4 at launch would have been fine if they actually added build tools, rather than minor additions or alterations to what already exists. Instead, we’re begging for an elevator and stairs because “we already have stairs.

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Lab Assistant
#32 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 7:51 AM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
If you’re bar for limitations is whether or not you can remake a club, you severely underestimate what limitations are. TS3 was fairly rough around the edges, but EA could have built up from that platform. Instead, they scrapped it.

Even without cheats, TS3’s build mode was perfectly fine. The additional of cheats made it that much better.

Even having a limited selection of foundations as opposed to using wallpaper (or having the option of either or) is frustrating because the wallpapers that are supposed to match... don’t.

It’s not fair to tell people who have been building for quite some time what consistutes as limited or what is “good enough,” because good enough is fine for you. TS4 at launch would have been fine if they actually added build tools, rather than minor additions or alterations to what already exists. Instead, we’re begging for an elevator and stairs because “we already have stairs.


And I should care what you have to say, why? Also you misspelled 'constitutes'. People have their opinions and I don't underestimate anything, but you seem to overdo how much you don't like Sims 4. Your opinions are your own, but keep your toxic hatred to yourself please. We can all like what we want and no one has any right to be disrespectful to someone due to a different opinion on something as small as a video game. Also it is also not fair to assume I have not been building as long as others, this is a new account for your information friend, I have been building on Sims 3 and Sims 4 for quite some years now. What I don't do though is rant and complain about video games or criticize people for what they like.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#33 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 11:15 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
I have been building on Sims 3 and Sims 4 for quite some years now. What I don't do though is rant and complain about video games or criticize people for what they like.


I have been building for quite some years now aswell and I know that in the sims 4 you cannot make a curved bridge, skyscraper or a house on a hill. You can do that in the sims 2 or in the sims 3. That is why I made this thread, so please everybody, stay on the topic or leave.
One horse disagreer of the Apocalypse
#34 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 11:57 AM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
Thanks I guess, I just wish people would stop their hate and just accept Sims 4 existed


No, any rational person can see the Sims 4 doesn't exist. You're living in fantasy!

"You can do refraction by raymarching through the depth buffer" (c. Reddeyfish 2017)
One Minute Ninja'd
#35 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 12:26 PM
Wow, it's nice to see things haven't changed much around here. While I understand there's been a blur in recent years regarding things like fake news and alternative facts, I do believe some attempt at reality is called for. First, opinions are opinions, and everyone is entitled to one. To suggest that differing opinions should be silenced is a rather nasty form of censorship. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Returning to facts, this iteration lacks many tools and options available to builders in earlier games. It offers simplified tools that allow someone to build a lot which can still be quite nice, but deprives the builder of the full suite of options available in earlier versions. Whether that change in the building process is sufficient for a builder to feel satisfied is an opinion. And there are opinions being voiced that TS4 is less builder friendly to advanced builders, but certainly more approachable for novice builders. That opinion is generated by fact.
Mad Poster
#36 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 1:30 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
And I should care what you have to say, why? Also you misspelled 'constitutes'. People have their opinions and I don't underestimate anything, but you seem to overdo how much you don't like Sims 4. Your opinions are your own, but keep your toxic hatred to yourself please. We can all like what we want and no one has any right to be disrespectful to someone due to a different opinion on something as small as a video game. Also it is also not fair to assume I have not been building as long as others, this is a new account for your information friend, I have been building on Sims 3 and Sims 4 for quite some years now. What I don't do though is rant and complain about video games or criticize people for what they like.


There are more grammatical errors. If you must make this personal, don’t sell yourself short of the insults towards me.

Anyway, I never came at you directly (at least not in an insulting way), but I stand behind my statement that your perception of the good enough isn’t enough to justify how others should feel about the game. TS4 has additions I like, and I appreciate the convenience. However, my criticisms are no less valid than your praises. Keep in mind, I’ve been bridling since TS1 came out, so I’m not blindly giving critique for the sake of critique.

I don’t mind complimenting TS4 where credit is do. Hell, even recently, I praised seasons and Parenthood. However, if you think painting me as the “any forumer who rants about the TS4” all day without reading everything I post about TS4, please, feel free. That is your opinion after all.

Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
Returning to facts, this iteration lacks many tools and options available to builders in earlier games. It offers simplified tools that allow someone to build a lot which can still be quite nice, but deprives the builder of the full suite of options available in earlier versions. Whether that change in the building process is sufficient for a builder to feel satisfied is an opinion. And there are opinions being voiced that TS4 is less builder friendly to advanced builders, but certainly more approachable for novice builders. That opinion is generated by fact.


No, this is true. Anything difficult or complex has been removed to make things more approachable. These things weren’t even locked behind cheats like CFE was removed entirely. We can’t even place wallpaper tiles where we want anymore.

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Mad Poster
#37 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 2:35 PM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 20th Sep 2018 at 3:09 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
I no doubt see the limitations, but I feel the original poster overexaderates the limitations a bit. If you can build nice lots than what is the problem other than you can't go all out? There were limitations in Sims 3 as well if you did not use cheats or mods. Also not to mention you could not build pools and fountains like you can now. I don't think I could remake the water based club exactly in Sims 3 if I tried.

Overexaggerated? Please elaborate. From what I'm reading, he isn't wrong on the limitations he listed. Would be interesting If somebody could list things what are and how many limitations comparing all games.

Also, what do you mean by water-based clubs? How's TS3 proves to be much difficult to build such following things than in TS4? What's your experience or If you can give an example, I would love to hear it.

Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
What I don't do though is rant and complain about video games or criticize people for what they like.

Well, none of us are criticizing you for playing it If that's what you're implying. Just mildly disagreeing with you. As for red dislike - ignore those. I had received few or more that are ahead of likes clicked, but I don't give a flip as they don't have any value until someone who clicked leaves a comment upon their reason for clicking it.

Though I kinda have to agree, albeit been a long time since I played the game, that TS4 has severe limitations that puts most builders off. This doesn't mean the game doesn't have well-provided improvements and virtues that don't stand against on from the predecessors. You can pick up a room and plot a few feet or stories, which is fictional in itself. Share and upload them online like a set of room furniture assets. Change a ceiling/foundation height at your fingertips (stairs adjust to the height of the latter thing), though in this particular iteration such aspect of build mode suffers severely for the height those two can exceed unabling to by pass and that the remain across the whole lot instead defining it for a particular room only (the foundation and its height is applied to sheds and garage rooms, which kinda defeats the creative freedom for the builder). Second, as I have heard a report from one person, some of the intuitive is gone, but that simply can be bypass by using workarounds or improvisation, so that's a mild pet peeve and not that biggie. Third, that connects with the issue one, CFE is gone, so that takes away the possibilities to build different length stairs, ditches, moats, a basement that have an entrance underground to the ground, castles on the hills, ponds and the list go on whatever options for building there were available.

Since buy mode is classified to the build mode as one big mechanic, I'm gonna address the elephant in the room. CAST/Color-wheel doesn't exist. Seen a lot showing disappointment in how they don't have much choice for color schemes because a)furniture tend to not match in a specific room interior setting or b) there isn't a lot to choose from anymore as all the matches have been reused often in other builds/lots.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Mad Poster
#38 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:14 PM
People love the tear into CAST until they want their furniture (from the same set at times) to match, or they want a chair to be a color other than beige, red, or green.

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Field Researcher
#39 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 4:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ShadowMT13
I no doubt see the limitations, but I feel the original poster overexaderates the limitations a bit. If you can build nice lots than what is the problem other than you can't go all out? There were limitations in Sims 3 as well if you did not use cheats or mods. Also not to mention you could not build pools and fountains like you can now. I don't think I could remake the water based club exactly in Sims 3 if I tried.


The water club? Like the one you posted earlier? You could make something pretty close to that in Sims 3. TS4’s build mode was made “simpler” - like idiot proof if you ask me, but some people might find that offensive.

Build mode is basically designed like a LEGO block builder where you can slap together a “nice” looking build in like 10 minutes without much effort or thought required.
One Minute Ninja'd
#40 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 6:50 PM
Yeah, CAST was real handy when building. I have no clue yet how to accomplish anything like that while building. I miss the impulsive "let's make everything striped!" ability with CAST. But it was a resource hog, and loading all your swatches could take some patience if you went nuts with new patterns and sampling. Too bad they never took the time to try and optimize it.
Scholar
#41 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 7:02 PM
Quote: Originally posted by eskie227
Yeah, CAST was real handy when building. I have no clue yet how to accomplish anything like that while building. I miss the impulsive "let's make everything striped!" ability with CAST. But it was a resource hog, and loading all your swatches could take some patience if you went nuts with new patterns and sampling. Too bad they never took the time to try and optimize it.

Yeah I was sad when I found out that they had taken it out in Sims 4. That was one of the best features ever introduced to the the Sims franchise. With it gone then we have to resort to the old way of downloading a recolor we want on the internet or learn how to make it ourselves via by image editing.
Mad Poster
#42 Old 20th Sep 2018 at 9:02 PM Last edited by matrix54 : 20th Sep 2018 at 9:15 PM.
I miss CAST every day. You are given so much freedom with the base game alone. A SINGLE chair can be used with a variety of styles with a few button clicks.

I never minded loading swatches, as some were pretty quick. The exception being the Pattern and Fabric sections. Good lord...

Also, something as simple as this can’t be recreated to completion in the Sims 4 without the game having a heart attack about floor levels. Garages? Who has those?
Screenshots

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Test Subject
#43 Old 4th Oct 2018 at 1:05 AM
Engine Limitations and lazy developers.
Mad Poster
#44 Old 4th Oct 2018 at 3:45 AM
Lazy might not be the right word to use. They constantly make decisions that make no sense and then give shitty explanations for why. But I wouldn't call most of them lazy.

The Receptacle still lives!
Mad Poster
#46 Old 6th Oct 2018 at 2:00 PM
Terrain tools are taking a comeback and garages are hinted. Have some of developers been lurking around this forum prior to the stream in this few days a month old but recent thread? Good to know twitter and the forums isn't the only window for finding input and feedback, especially when the latter is under the patrol and control of strict policies and accusations of ban hammers striking members there.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
One Minute Ninja'd
#47 Old 6th Oct 2018 at 3:26 PM
Quote: Originally posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Terrain tools are taking a comeback and garages are hinted. Have some of developers been lurking around this forum prior to the stream in this few days a month old but recent thread? Good to know twitter and the forums isn't the only window for finding input and feedback, especially when the latter is under the patrol and control of strict policies and accusations of ban hammers striking members there.


They've been lurking and even outright participating on this forum for years (or a least they did, I have no recent example to point to). They know exactly what the complaints were before launching and have scrambled to meet the expectations ever since. Open world, well, that was a loss with the online original intent. CAST was a resource hog, but they never tried to optimize it and again, the original online optimized engine wasn't going to play nice with it.

That said, they did provide pools (supposedly a great deal of work for initial inclusion), toddlers (done really well IMO), and assorted and sundry items that were standard from earlier versions. Now they figured out how to return terrain tools to the game. So it's not like they are unresponsive or unaware of community requests, but between engine constraints, an unrealistic release date after the switch to single player, and whatever budget decisions are being made, I would not consider them as lazy. They know what's lacking, but can only work with the tools they have available, whether developer time and money.

Al that said, it's apparent that they are committed to continued development and support for this version. Adding terrain tools is a biggie and while not as flashy as toddlers, a big deal to develop after the fact and still have earlier building decisions and tools play nice with it. Another inference about their commitment is updating to a more recent version of Python. A pain for all the script mod writers, who I hope will b e able to recompile without too much of a headache on the update, but why would the developers bother with a move like that if they didn't have significant plans for the future?. Although what that will look like is of course unknown.

I really believe they have pretty good insight into what players want, but can only provide so much in whatever budget and time constraints they operate under. Terrain tools are a big deal for frustrated builders who want to move beyond Lego styled room construction for a home or lot. My only issue with terrain tools is it is better to work with on larger lots (for me and whatever I would envision) and those are in short supply without bulldozing and relocating a preexisting family if occupied. I always feel guilty evicting someone. At least there are more worlds than at release, so it's a little better in that respect.
Mad Poster
#48 Old 6th Oct 2018 at 9:47 PM
It’s never been about them adding things - which they are. They’re either adding things VERY late (we should be moving on to TS5 right about now), or many things are done poorly.

I’m still waiting for that new, innovative tool or feature that genuinely shakes up how players create lots. I believe having deeper control over our modular staircases, as we have with countertops, would genuinely change how lots are build. No need to make an L-Shaped staircase object, or a U shapes objects - you just make it in build mode.

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One Minute Ninja'd
#50 Old 6th Oct 2018 at 11:01 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Unsearchably
That's good if it means we'll be able to own and drive cars again. If they're adding them just so we can use them for band practice it really just adds salt to the wound.


If they add cars, they will be TS2 styled. No matter how much you'd try, you can't do an open world sort of take a drive to wherever and follow along with TS4 built as it is.
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